Dr Sidika: This is the first intake of the MMUST eleven medical school students. They started in September last year. I have also posted here the information on the intake and the requirements. Please valogooli vange, mtatigara inyima dave. Sidika
Yes it will train in medicine so that we have the personnel to run the medical institutions. The five Governor's have come together and develop other medical specialities in the other counties in the region.We have Vihiga. Busia, kakamega. Bungoma and kitale. Please if you are between 20-40 years invest in medical projects. Sidika
Lumadi Jenyeka: Daktari have you ascertained this information?I know two ladies in that group Belinda and Stella and they are not Med students as far as I know.
Lumadi Jenyeka: They are WECOHAS staff though.
Baba Ndanyi: @Dr Sidika
I can see these wecohas projects are quite big and complex, I don't mind us or some of us being part of them, I wouldn't want to sound sceptical but some us have lived long enough to dread terms like 'white elephant', 'cash cow', 'cartels', etc, terms associated with Government; I know you have researched and are confident its a good investmt. I want to agree with that, but I wish we could join as a group other than as individuals to spread the risk, can we discuss before making a commitment??
Dr Sidika: I had actually talked about Saniaga joining as a group. There are other groups. I have put in some cash and I know medical investments never go wrong if well managed. I talked to Patrick Lung' to discuss during the AGM as I was unwell. I might relocate to teach at MMUST. It's true some of the people in the group photo are staff. There is also risk in any investment but I think I have better assessment of some investment projects in Medicine. The Swedish Government that started the cancer/radiotherapy at Knh are behind the wecohas cancer institute. They will finance the centre and provide the initial personnel to run it until it's well established. It will attract cancer patients from east Africa region. It's an investment worth taking up. Buy shares!!! Sidika
Bella: How does a cancer institute generate money? Arent they involved in cancer research?
Harold Ndanyi: MTRH treats for money. Similarly Cancer treatment and care will be provided at a cost and it's costly to patients and profits to investor. My thoughts. Hospitals businesses are doing well so far. No bargaining.
Bella: It qualifies you to know how to use it
Dr Sidika: It's as@ will traveler has put it. Cancer institute trains medical personnel, technologists, Medical Administrators, there wards for patients, carry out cancer research etc (it's a Hospital for cancer and training center for cancer illnesses). Sidika
Dr Sidika: This is the inuagral medical students intake. I am trying to get the group photo of a meeting in Nairobi where I participated. I have been posting all these here but nobody has ever responded to my posts. Sidika
Lung'afa: We need to be there @ Doc.
But as Baba Ndanyi has suggested, we go as a block. Individuals can be left hanging. A big reason why we need the SACCO on its feet. To discuss the many opportunities.
The idea was too big for me to float it at AGM. But we are here, it can be passes to all.
Come nearer (kamunara) home. Teach at MMUST and help the CBO in much more other things locally.
Blessings.
Bella: Am yet to understand how we shall make money. Are we going to be donors or investors. All these activities translate to spending money. Forgive my ignorance but if am buying shares i expect to get dividends
Harold Ndanyi: I normally follow your posts but sometimes they can get mixed up in hundreds of other chats
Harold Ndanyi: I know it might take a few years but it will pay off like private hospitals.
Bella: Then for now they should request for donors not investors.
Dr Sidika: @Bella I don't understand your question. This is an investment and definitely you have to finance and share into profits. Cancer right now is a nightmare to those inflicted because of the treatment costs involved. Sidika
Lung'afa: Hehe. For Saniaga Sacco whom do we request?
We are both donors and investors.
Bella: Besides, maybe am negative but i have a problem making money out of cancer patients. They really suffer n need support. I wish cancer treatment was totally free n accessible to everyone. I live for that day a woman in west pokot will get treatment for cervical cancer. I dont live for that day my shares in a cancer centre will bring me dividends.
Dr Sidika: The Sacco can invest into it and dividends shared as per individual shares. I was part of the cancer care centre at M.P. Shah Hospital and we sold it to the present owners. Sidika
Bella: Ad rather donate to cancer than make money from it. Thats my point. We should help erradicate cancer n make treatment accessible to our people but not make money out of it
Bella: I think its s very good project if its coming from an angle of donations not investment
Bella: Personally i wont make money out of needy cancer patients. But thats my opinion
Dr Sidika: So who do you want to develop the center? Of course it's the community. Do you want other people to invest and you donate to them? Sidika
Lung'afa: It is both. You can have the resources and all that then seek grants and donations to run. To pay utilities and forth. 'Pay you too' as you keep ensuring 'the Turkana woman is reached.'
Bella: Refer to what i said up there. We can develop it without expecting returns from it
Dr Sidika: Then how would you run it? Sidika
Bella: From donors not investors. Donors give freely without expecting anything back. Investors give to make a profit
Bella: I have a problem with making money out of cancer patients
Dr Sidika: Why do you pay for your hospital fees? Isn't the same as making money from unfortunate sick people? Sidika
Lung'afa: Oh. You may not run a morgue too. Or own a hearse. Or open an abortion clinic. But life out here needs them. 😄
Bella: Its the same n i have a problem with it. I long for the day we shall be able to go to hospital n get treated free
Bella: Exactly. I wouldnt run an abortion clinic. Never. We dont need them
Bella: Anyway you will never understand my point coz we see things from different sides of the mirror.
Lung'afa: You therefore not against the Cancer centre idea. You would just wish it helps as many as possible. Of course with no desire to know operational costs.
- Hii dunia ni ile tutapata ile ng'ambo ingine. Or not soon in this sort of world. But it is valid anyway.
Bella: No. I said the idea is good. Look for donors not investors. The donors will cover the operational costs. Dont invest to make money out of cancer. Donate to help cancer patients
Bella: Like i said hatutapatana coz we are seeing things from different perspective
Dr Sidika: Donors come in to assist when you have those needy clients who cannot afford the treatment. You argument is emotional and nobody can give you free medical care in this world. You fundraise to airlift people to India for cancer and they still die. Imagine if you had the facility here nearer your rural home!!! You will save them from a lot of headaches. That's why we should support the idea. You can ask people to invest in the project cos nobody will give their hard earned money for free! The Swedish Government asked the community to raise one million dollars and they will provide 30 million dollars just to see the local commitment. These are in the form of shares for locals.. The Swedish will run the centre for 7 years to get their money back( what you call donation) @ Bella, I don't understand your perspective. We are not taking money from people for our personal use but to develop a much needed Healthcare service locally.Sidika
Bella: Yes am emotional, compassionate n i care about people deeply thats why i said we shall never agree on this one coz we see things through different lenses. I will never make money from a cancer patient. If i had lots of money i would take every sick person in my community to India n pay for their treatment
Lung'afa: But the Indians here are making money anyway. And getting better medically day and night... Whether patients heal or die...
Bella: BTW there are organizations that donate to cancer without expecting something in return. Infact i know an organization thats looking for funding for cancer children. You adopt a kid, pay for them 6000kshs for annual NHIF subscription so that NHIF can pay for their treatment.
Bella: I dont have to do what someone else is doing if i think its ethically wrong. Like i said, we shall never agree on this one so lets leave it at that
Dr Sidika: I am retired after 42years at KNH and I somehow know what I am talking about. I stayed those years at KNH cos I had compassion for the sick and worked really hard and long hours. I was part of the Doctors from western who had passion of having a cancer hospital in Western because I saw a lot of suffering of our people at Knh who travelled for treatment in Nairobi. It's not only cancer but the five Governors have come together through a meeting I organized while I was CEO at the Mater hospital. We decided to have different medical specialities in each county to become training, research and specialist Healthcare service centres in Medicine. We shall achieve this goal so that services are brought closer to the communities. Whether you like it or not this has to be achieved. We don't want people to fundraise and enrich Indians and South Africa etc medical institutions. Sidika
Dr Sidika: By the way it's ethically wrong not to do what will help improve healthcare services. Rest and rise well. Sidika
Bella: Its not a matter of me liking or not. I merely said i will not make money out of cancer patients but i also said we are different n see things from different perspectives.
Bella: I always do what i can to help people access healthcare services without expecting to make money out of poor sick people
Bella: People who do good without expecting anything in return never tire to do so.
Bella: Ethically correct is you solicite funds to improve health services at Mbale hospital so that those poor people who travel from western to KNH cfor cancer treatment can have it right at home
Dr Sidika: @Bella I don't seem to understand you and I don't collect money from people for my personal use. I am not also responsible for any bodies treatment or healthcare services. Each person when sick or has cancer strives to pay for healthcare services. If we can make it affordable for them, then why not. It would be better for them to have the service available locally. Sidika
Harold Ndanyi: @Dr Sidika kindly help our sister @Bella, she needs some counseling. The kind of emotions being poured and the negative energy have some underlying.
Kibisu Joash: Setting cancer facilities locally will save more lives. Rather than going to India. I think the idea is fantastic. Raising air ticket and stay in India is too traumatising to cancer patients.
Victoria Ndanyi: @Bella has genuine concerns like many other silent ones who have heard whatever is being put across for the first time. So whoever is explaining needs to do a good job so that everyone else understands not just @Bella only.
I find nothing wrong with her concerns. People should not fear being questioned about the projects they are recruiting others in to.
Victoria Ndanyi: So, in short, the Swedish government is simpling loaning the money not donating.
+254 727 32342xx: This is an immature n insultive statement.if we are to make any positive progress kindly let is be able to handle ideas from all perspectives. All of us may not view things the same n that is why we are here.we have people who take big risks n see things from that angle. We also have people who are very analitical n they try to analyse every risk.we need all those people for anything to be a success.That said @Will Traveller kindly resist from making such statements towards any member of this group including myself
Harold Ndanyi: I think her concerns were that she can't invest in health care providing business rather than the security of the investment.
+254 727 3234xx: Whatever her concerns were you should not write such personal statements to a member.every one has a right to have any kind of concern
Harold Ndanyi: As you said... Look at my statement as an opinion too. Resist stopping me from making opinion.
+254 727 3234xx: Don't post your personal opinions about people. Post your opinion about wat is being discussed on the group. This is not a group for discussing people.kindly learn to take in correction with humility n maturity n pliz I do not want to begin exchanging with you.let's stick to the subject of discussion.
Harold Ndanyi: What's your problem. Give your opinion. I made my opinion, she responded I responded without any prejudice. You being VERY MATURE comment on the idea.
Harold Ndanyi: You have a problem or something?
+254 727 3234xx: I will in due time. You don't have to talk all the time.when you don't have anything constructive to say you can be quiet as I
was.na nimekuambia sitaki back n forth.just learn to take in correction period! Next!
Harold Ndanyi: Correcting what?
Period why? You can't gag me, ain't your subject. Lanes.
Erick Author: I think her concerns are quite valid. People have different values and moral standards. Some may not be comfortable with the feeling that they are enriching themselves off someone else's suffering. Some wouldn't give a rat's behind about that.
Neccy Flossy: Rather negative
me thinks but at same time truth under reasons but one cannot fail to pat with funds in the hope. Just like lots spent on funerals but the fund dont help the expired dead body. Our minds are just wired like that... Unfortunately
Ngana Lubanga: Waa that exchange not healthy. It may draw in other members and who may take sides. Waa kindly let us tone down.
Alwanda Menelik: Family the proposal is left as that until the national governing council convene and tell us kama we are bardind in that idea ama hapana...
Neccy Flossy: Tone it but let us discuss constructively. We need these chats from whatever angles they come from but stop the gag. Cancer affects us all of us irrespective whether you personally have it or not.
Alwanda Menelik: Order
Govedi Muzami: Well I really find most of the trail of discussions here very resourceful. However we should have a civil and objective way of accommondating members that need more information. The fact that I keep on probbing to get facts doesn't necessarily mean that I am dissenting with your idea nor am I becoming emotional. Let's kindly tone down on the language we use here otherwise we will have less participation in critical upcoming matters 😊
Victoria Ndanyi: 👍 discussion is very healthy. No assumptions
Neccy Flossy: Is this forum matured really. Why the order!
Govedi Muzami: Will Traveller calm down. I think you are losing the handle here bro👋🏿
Neccy Flossy: One person alone is not going to shut down a very healthy and good discussion. And who is that ordering a shut down. Then shut this CBO down🙉 We are here to learn. No one has abused anyone from when the discussion begun.. ninabuni.
Bensolo Ndanyi: Lets learn to embrace each other and lets stop being negative at each other correct with love
Neccy Flossy: Dr Sadika, i salute you. As the only body doctor in the house, Personally i encourage you to post any rubbish you think of here in the form of healthy even if you get no answers or responses, The fact remains, they read, they comprehend, they use the information, they learn, they get educated.
+254 727 3234xx: I think it is very unfortunate.When someone does wat is wrong he should be told if we are to be a group with impact.whether they are close to you or not .it is wrong for a member to personally attack another member directly because of their views.Question
1) Are we only allowed to contribute when we agree with everything?
2) Are we supposed to leave the discussions with only few people?
3) Do we believe by forming alliances to support even wat is wrong we will make progress?
4)Do we want to leave the discussions to just a few people who can never be corrected even when wrong n allow them to bully other members?
5)Are we supposed to discuss people or discuss the subject at hand.
That in mind ,then fine .whichever way the group is to be run its okay.As for this one fanning the flame then fund the group n run it alone.
Kibisu Joash: There is a problem somewhere. The project has been proposed for us by a professional who has been in that field for four decades. Instead of discussing the merits and demerits of the projects we are busy discussing the morals of grown ups. All of us can't think alike. My take is I'm for the project.
+254 727 3234xx: Ii agree n appreciate the one who introduced the project.As a matter of fact I am for the project.I just thought it was introduced for discussion n I thought it. was a noble thing when a member was participating with such passion. Even if they were criticizing. It was still progress.but would you agree with this?
+254 727 3234xx: Is this project discussion? That is why much as I have been quiet trying to understand I decided to comnent
Baba Kereda: Hi Fam. let's keep the discussion going but let's be accommodative to each others view. nobody has a monopoly of ideas. we need to share our likes and dislikes. the views might be of great help to someone or not. opinion of people vary on various issues. Have a blessed and fruitful day
Ngana Lubanga: Saccos used to use members contributions to start income generating activities which eventually brought them down. The rules changed in that those who wish to join investment s have to do so voluntarily. Am in Stima Sacco. It has tens of thousands of members. We also have stima investment which was formed for investment purposes. It has very few members. It is law that they operate as separate entities.
Jane Bwonya: Considering this long post on how our very own medics collude with Indian medics to mint money from the poor, middle income & even the rich in Kenya; there is a problem with regards to cancer treatment. Cancer therefore to both Kenyan & Indian medics is a huge business. So my dear Jesca & Bella, both your sentiments are valid. In the first place, with a cancer facility in Western, many cancer patients from the region will not travel to Nairobi. Such a facility will lead to research on cancer and this is where some members come in. The research should also include herbal medicine not as one by quacks but one that is highly scientific. This way, we shall have participated in killing the corruption surrounding cancer - something that is very immoral.
I think all our concerns are very legitimate. However, as family, let us not seem to be castigating one another but rather learn to listen & accomodate different viewpoints before coming to a consensus. This is my take.
Bella: Kndly do not talk about me. Talk about the issues at hand. We are here discussing projects not Bella
Jane Bwonya: Each of us has valid concerns that are addressed in a forum such as ours. As a family back home, some of us are hasty in decision making, others very slow and others accomodating; yet our parents have put up with each one of us under the same roof. Similarly, this group is home where we are maturing daily under the same Saniaga roof. May we all have a good day vana vetu.
Neccy Flossy: Saniaga Rigina. Can we conclude Sidikas cancer project and agree way forward before other simpler issues get in the way, please
Lung'afa: The cancer centre is needed like yesterday. No one is saying NO. We are all for a Yee.
Which forum to pull resources through? CBO or SACCO?
Victoria Ndanyi: The matter is liberal.
Those who want to participate as a group(CBO,SACCO etc) should do so. And those who like to venture into wecohas should free to do so too.
We don't want people blaming others later.
Information is always available. Let everyone read/ consult widely then engage themselves where they feel comfortable.
Lung'afa: We can have a million ideas and projects with all of us pursuing them as per our professions. It is proactive of us instead of taking a sit in the group and see us fumble up!
The project(s) that go succeed, well and good. Those that go wait for other generation, it will be a good trial too. Importantly we give all support we can to develop an idea.
Baba Ndanyi: Can Jeska lead us on the Cancer treatment facility please
Dr Sidika: Good afternoon all. Thank you for your thoughts. I have no problem with what has been discussed but I have a problem with discussion that do not yield any forward idea. I just gave information that could be used to give awareness on the need to participate in the cancer center. All of us are victims of the disease. We know a friend, relative who has been affected and we know the associated costs. You are free to participate in the cancer center.. It might not benefit you directly but it will sure benefit the community. Sidika
Baba Ndanyi: @Victoria Ndanyi
At times when you look at the risk in what you think you have to do the risk may look bigger and not worth the effort of taking it, but success comes out of such sticking out, there would be no point in having the Saniaga group if we can't move and do things together.
Note; the phone number is of one Annette Chahale
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