But L is not our language!

Lung'afa: Beautiful! 

But L is not our language! 

- 😇

Sande Olocho: It is "R" we do not have.

Lung'afa: Can we host a Ruragori symposium? 

I will prove myself that R is the letter

Neccy Flossy: All Avalogooli chilren were never intruduced to "R".. Although it is there, it is not prominent. If you were not taught to say "Lola olololo lulala lulu lululu lululi" then you are not a maragoli. Ulumundu (Vihigan) they say.. "roro orororo rurara rura rururu ruruli" this is not Olologooli and pleasr dont write such now that kwakajaga ilikandiki ivitabu Asande mugase but observe the "r" please.

Neccy Flossy: No Patrick, kua mpole, please there are many more seniors than you and "L" rules. You cannot reinvent your own rules on peoples language

Lung'afa: 😜

Rome knew Earth as the centre of universe. 

Galileo said NOPE. 

😜

Sande Olocho: Vasakulu vahandichi.

Ekomiti indiduhu ligali.

Sande Olocho: "R"

Is only in exceptions like, "zerere"

Otherwise ours is a lazy "L" as the Tanzanians do when they speak.

Emphatic "R" we don't have.

Neccy Flossy: If you want to begin writing Ulumundu.. (watch there is no R in the word Olumundu) then specify nu Ulumundu you were taght not how to write it. Aveseve... (rubbish ni lubbish), (arrogant ni allogant, shilli, chilli

Lung'afa: We say we are nearer to Kisii and Kuria. 

Do they do 'l'? 

- A symposium on the lowest. Can we strike one?

Sande Olocho: Olololo lulumi Ololo vululu ahalulu.

Leka gave ndio, kulwakalunu.

Neccy Flossy: This is a society, cultural thing, na icarriculum is accommodating venacular. Patrick your translations and r and r will not pass and you cannot one individual force on the society that knows. Sorry am a bit harsh on this. I sat with mugendi Nathan Luvai and Senior most mzee Ndanyi , the lulogooli talkers and i would like to honour what i heard and what they wrote

Neccy Flossy: This should actually read Lulogooli (the language) Translation. Note that there is no language called Maragori. Therefore that book is already a non start... A big overhauled needed for the whole community acceptance. You have tried Patrick, well done but Maragori  won't pass the community and thats the truth and children will not have a false start with the language. Si kwa ubaya

Lung'afa: I am not doing anything to pass anywhere. 

That is why I at first freely shared the book. 😊

I do not impose my truths. It is up to the thinkers. To try looking at things from the other side. 

- Take your l, I will my r

Baba Ndanyi: Can someone create a letter whose sound is Midway between L and R, then we'll be home and dry; we would have solved a bigger problem of when and where to use the two letters.

Sande Olocho: There is a goal of standardising the *orthography* of the Lologooli language.

Burma became Myanmar, Bombay became Mumbai, Peking was corrected to Beijing.

Kimaragoli is no exception I suppose.

Sande Olocho: Good point.

It is a dilemma presently.

But "L" is much closer to it.

Neccy Flossy: I heard there is a group of wazees, called Kwambulana... Avasoomi Valogooli looking at school curruculum for inclusion of L'logooli teaching in schools and people yo begin wtiting L'logooli books for approval for children. Can these Avasoomi dwel on this 'r' and 'l' phonetcs, and where can they be found?

Lung'afa: The respectable editorial committee was in a hurry to have the books out. They had deadlines. And established 'l' was used.

Establishments are comfort zones. People have no time to challenge or better them. They are busy satiating desires and following trends. 

- Let us think about it. For I am not insane to write lola when I speak rora, when I know to do for another person is rorera but slanged as rol'la. 

We have time to think otherwise. Our mind can resist at first. But when it accepts there is great comfort. 🙏🏽🙏🏽

Sande Olocho: The decision was arrived at scientifically by a Mulogoli Professor of languages in our local universities .

Lung'afa: I am in search of that scientific process. Please share if you know it.

Erick Author: Personally ,I will and do stick to R and V instead of L and B. Language is dynamic and I think that's how things should be in the present day. That's the new age Lurogori. Olologooli it's a Maasai word that I won't use. 😏

Vincent Iramuka: 🤫Shhh. Thise who only value "development" discussions will hear you. 🏃🏿‍♂

Jane Bwonya: Even umutere is one of those exceptions. Look at ovotele and koteleka. There is umulu for fire which is the shortened version of umuliru. I'm not a linguist but when you have a lazy l and r following each other as in muliru; whereas the l is lazy seemingly like r, the first letter will be l & the next r but this has exceptions also. Linguists in the family, say something.

Neccy Flossy: 👆🏾👆🏾Thank God There is hardly an 'R' in any of the above subtitles. 🧐🧐🧐👆🏾

Lung'afa: No hurry aunt. Hackers can find and replace millions of words by clicking once at the keyboard. 

- Revolution

Jane Bwonya: Rol'la is not slang but the shortened version of the word. This being the case, you will agree with my rudimentary scheme to Erick above. Once we shorten it to rol'la, it means the word in full is rolera or rolela. Linguists, saidieni hapa.

Sande Olocho: 'Umulu' (umulilu in full) is actually  "umul'lu" so that the "L" can be emphatic.

Sande Olocho: Inguza yu mutele ne ndel'le mbitila.

Sande Olocho: All this was done by the Wazee in balance with the variation I pronunciation and vocabulary of North, Central and South Maragoli.

Tough job!

Kenneth Jumba: That variants in swahili enabled standardization   that used Kiunguja dialect as point of refence in both  enunciation and orthography. The discussants here could borrow a leaf to navigate such tricky and at times, explosive question around right or wrong language development approaches.

Luvai: Interesting debate...Let us remember that we start with the sound-litivuka- , not the sign- ling'ooda- , which is an arbitrary sign to represent sound. Try therefore to premise your argument on the sound; locate the position of your tongue in your mouth as you pronounce /l/ in look and  /r/ in root. Now make a sound with the tongue neither in the /l/ position, nor in the /r/ position. That is what has been lovingly called the 'lazy 'l'. In the absence of a sign in the alphabet we use to  represent the lazy 'l', single "l' stands for that sound, while double 'll' stands for the firm one of the tongue firmly hard on the roof of the mouth.

Sande Olocho: Asande mno Prof.

Wakanyambula.

Mizigizu jakava jimale vee.😄

Jane Bwonya: Like in leta. The /l/ is lazy and in ul'liru where the /l / is forceful?

Erick Author: Very enlightening, Prof.👌🏾

Baba Ndanyi: @⁨Lung'afa⁩ 

The 'L's and 'R's we use in Lulogooli are not distinct, we tend to bring the two letters to a sort of compromise in our oral discourse, we neither pronounce 'L' or 'R' but something in between; we have to give the two letters distinction or we settle for a compromise, the two letters sound like a light letter R. Tafakari hayo.

Dr Caroline Rudenyi: So is my name supposed to be Rudenyi or

Ludenyi for example🤷🏽‍♀🤷🏽‍♀

Kibande Voyi: Should be  Rodenyi

Lung'afa: I am Rung'afa. 😁

Baba Ndanyi: Written, it's Ludenyi, but orally pronounced with a light R, neither L nor R is distinct, we need a letter that can accommodate both, we embraced the English alphabet without critical consideration.

Sande Olocho: The L/R is well illustrated in the name Mrs.Reeves.

Our Lologooli version is, "Musuluve"

And not, "Musuruve"

"Engoko, etera irivuyu" or "Engoko etela ilivuyu?"

Sande Olocho: 'Tsi' has been dropped in recent times for 'Z'

"Zingelosi", (The Angels) and not "Tsingelosi"

Lung'afa: Here is another example why 'l' is unnecessary. 

Vurara will be written vulala. It means one or oneness.

Slang is vul'la to shorten 'rara' by double 'l'

If you say Vul'la it could also be  misinterpreted with vula (vura with r) which means 'lack'. If you write vurara and vura there would be no conflicts whatsoever. 

Stepping on, we have vura. Spoken as vūra (I also found out there is no need to lengthen or use double vowels in writing. The dictionary can just differentiate one word from another). To mean discover, put to light or uncover. If you write it as vula, the tragedy is below. 

One, you will be confused in direct speech when lengthening 'vura' (vüra in dictionary form to denote at least three vowels) to mean "thaaaat". You get the plot?

Here we have vurara, vura, vūra and vüra. 

Go to 'coughing' or kunyambua each one of them. You will be badly mixed up without r. For instance vura to be coughed to recurring will be vuririrwa. To be coughed to present tense is vurira, hali ya kutendwa. In slang is vul'la. It confuses with oneness. Good in talks because it has plot and context. But in writing, no no. Dare you find a book that has no page 1 to 10 and you started reading from page 30. 

L works for lower school and simple translation. When you start a literary journey you end up confused with l. 

Should I just put the chalk down? 

- Let us talk