-: Hello Family,
A Saniaga is asking,
"Why is it that at the death of a man the two most profound questions are: yaali ni inyumba? yakoleka avaana vanga?"
- Let us know
-: A man is not a man until he has inyumba (mkali) and physically build (inyumba/house) he is considered a boy and he is burried in his mothers compound (not nice). Being independent from mother and father is extremely vital. This is an hour for him to talk with authority in the community. Many men in the community today are boys and most remain so to their death... Mama's boy. Children: Take responsibility if you sired outside (ichova). Pay childs dowry if you dont like the mother and take care of the children yoursef. Not your mother as she has no part in this siring of yor children without a wife. Shame on you, just still a boy
-: 😆. Haaki Senge?
-: Ukweli na usemwe. Notaveye ne Esimba (unmarried man house) Lung'afa.... Ohenze ligali
-: The two cardinal questions u have talked of when a mandies,are to determine the kind of burial to be accorded traditionally. If he had a house (wife) and never sered any child, then he will not be given a respectful burial. He will be pierced with a long Thorn at the bottocks(hakikululi).
They believed by so doing on one else of the kind will be born in their family
-: Very cruel. Not every man is fertile. It takes two to tangle. Ni mima mbivivi
-: Lung'afa is Mbivivi OK it sound funny
-: Some men's status were known from the time of birth and during circumsition
-: Its roots are in the innate instinct for animals to preserve and perpetuate their species.
-: Thank you for this.
I have seen before a woman spending her mourning days in a newly mudded house. Cold as cold can be. All because they were in Nairobi for long, the man died and they came to burry.
Would it have been the same if the woman was the one who had died?
-: Haven't we evolved from such heathen primitivity ?! Come ooon. Some stuff is so last century. Not only have burial methods changed...if you got cremated or donated your body to science or had it frozen in hydrogen and sent to space or someplace...where would all that gory stuff happen??!😂 Plus lifestyles have changed. You can choose to be married but have no children. Or to remain single and happy! Or marry late. The world today is wider and broader ...and freer than that of our ancestors.
-: Ukikiri mukisundi. Some of these things you call changes, they can't be tolerated in our society. I beg to differ in as much as every person is entitled to his or her own opinion.
-: Live in Nairobi as long as you want, but endeavour to go (the man) and build even just a small mud hut for your family (your wife). It is more respectable the action.
-: It's all nonsense. Our ancestors used to kill babies with congenital deformities at birth for instance, but we now know that disabled people can live full lives and be useful to themselves and to society...unlike some able bodied ones. And then, how on earth was infertility detected on circumcision?! There are several reasons why someone would be childless...and there are several modern day solutions and options. Adoption, in vitro fertilisation, surrogacy etc etc.
-: Yes. Reproduction was also a selfless action. If you look at the need to have as many relations as possible for your good.
And who would have refused to reproduce then? Or erect a small thatchy hut?
- Siku hizi kuna majukumu gugaaa. 😆
-: True. We do so many things while outside our ancestral home. We have no focus for tomorrow. When comes knocking that's when we have to put a house for you because you are an adult, huwezi kuwekwa kurusimbu lwa dada wovo. This should be awake up call Kwa wote wenye wanaishi towns na hatukumbuki home. Jenga kitu hata kama ni two rooms. It helps a lot in a time like that.
-: There are hidden things in these cultures that no one knows until death knocks.
-: I'm or I don't ask any body to follow what I wrote. So to brand me to be still in darkness is shear lack of language and expression. Some of u usually use English than readily understand i
-: All these issues have solutions whether you call them primitive or not. Kindly meet avasakuru, sit under saniaga elders if you are one, ask them bit by bit and you will just be amazed how issues used to be resolved and even in our day today how they are being resolved.
-: It is not nonsense. For example, wife inheritence is real in Maragoli, from the surface,it seems hidden one does not associate it, but widowed women in the home tend to avail themselves. Religion inaficha mengi na kuharibu manyumba. Plz dont thro stones ni maoni and what we see
-: I thought we were trying to dig out our passed history. If we continue fumbling and a shaming each other on social media, some of us will pen off from the same
-: Tbere is current thinking and old thinking. This forum is unearthing old history for record and that is where we are. After recording history, i suggest later wr consider documenting current development. Lets not go personal kuzozana. Lets freely discuss, talk, no one is leftting... please people
-: Hee mbotswa... Do Not pen off. You have more to give and contribute historically. No one knows everything culturally but we learn all times
-: Thank you so much. I hope we've all heard you.I'm glad you say for recording. And records should be accurate...and the forum should be open to all points of view. There's an African fable about a small tiny kabird. It finds a heap of elephant dung and starts to proudly dance and strut and show off on it. For bigger creatures zenye upeo zaidi, it is just a small pitiable creature dancing on a pile of shit....but itself eroraa za it's so great that it's dancing on the peak of a great mountain.
-: No penning off, guga. You have to teach us, despite the resistance.
Only that most of us have not met one another and we might think 'we are all same'. No, there are people who talk for discussion. Not arguments. Those who require selective words in response. Those who would pour out more if you looked inquisitive.
Notozwe Erick... Noho usuviraa ni vavuri? Navuza kari si vuriva vururu mba,
-: I'm with you on this one and you are one of the older Saniaga lights still beaming brightly. Lung'afa just echoed the often asked twin question: yakoleka umukali, aleki avaana vanga? Going ballistic and defensive on this straight forward issue amounts to self exposure. Has Lung'afa outed someone here??
-: Not really. I am also not going to marry and build soon. 😆.
- Lakini I welcome advises.
-: Which will be a greater achievement higher than those still living in mud walled vidioli for boys deep in their twilight years. There are those. People really MUST build and marry though . I totally agree. I was just offering an alternative viewpoint,kugera kuuza mu navodo. Peace.
-: I'm sorry for the misunderstanding Baba Japheth. I have a lot of respect for you and I'm aware of your deep knowledge and understanding of a wide range of issues. My source of irritation was from other levels. In my professional circles we thrive on free expression and sometimes radical and alternative viewpoints. I just keep hoping that more information and freedom would be allowed here by the owners. People are leaving because of the narrow scope of information and the rigid attitude with which it seems to be rammed down their throats (not by you Baba). I'm sure many must agree.
-: No bro, actually we haven't but from the surface of it one may think it as primitivity but not in reality. Last century stuff is actually history that repeats itself. Msaza mulogooli mpaka (must) personally atigande umusingi gwe inyumba yeye mwene niyakagula ugwige mulimi. Otherwise it is Ilidili (not nice) when it knocks but soon tents may replace. But notably bro Erick, you have not responded to any of Lungafas three questions but only resolved to attack, rubbished. What is your narrative? Avalivayo are the ones that decide for us whem it knocks as we take no part... dead and gone, culture prevails!
-: Hi! The questions were not directed at me to answer, and I was not attacking. I was only offering an alternative line of thought. My narrative is, It is good to record how our ancestors used to live and comport themselves. It is our history, our identity, our culture... but we have to note that some of what constitutes our culture is obsolete in the present day where our perspective is broader and our world bigger than that of our ancestors. I'm not going to contribute further on this thread. Thanks, blessed day to all.
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